Ashish Kumar Sen: You have refused to allow investigating authorities toexhume Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto's body. How can the controversy surrounding herdeath be laid to rest without this being done?
In an interview from Pakistan with our Washington correspondent , the new co-chairman of the Pakistan Peoples Party discusses the assassination of his wife Benazir Bhutto, his concerns about Pakistan's ability to hold free elections, and his plans fo
Ashish Kumar Sen: You have refused to allow investigating authorities toexhume Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto's body. How can the controversy surrounding herdeath be laid to rest without this being done?
Asif Ali Zardari: How can we trust the regime to handle thisinvestigation? All of us know that Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto was assassinated. Thedoctors who first tried to revive her had clearly stated that they saw bulletwounds--entry and exit. The doctors were then threatened and hushed up. Theauthorities have all along been trying to cover up and changed their versions.
In medico-legal cases it is the responsibility of the government to carry outa postmortem. The doctors examined her but now the regime says that they are notaware. I came from Dubai after six hours of the event when the body had alreadybeen sealed in the casket. Within no time the crime scene was hosed down. Threedifferent versions of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto 's death were given in three daysby the highest officials in the country.
Most Pakistanis believe that elements within the government machinery, incahoots with the intelligence agencies, were directly responsible for thisattack. So under such circumstances, how can we expect Pakistani authorities toconduct a fair and honest investigation, even if after exhuming the body? Whatgood would be done by desecrating the last remains of my wife when the entireinvestigation is being controlled and manipulated by the regime and a massivecover up is quite obvious?
The question of exhumation of the body is a diversion from the real issue.Why the doctors' statements were not formally recorded and their findingsaltered if there was even the slightest doubt about the cause of death? Therewas no doubt whatsoever, which is why the police also did not seek an autopsyand the doctors and police officers are being pressured to keep quiet or changetheir statements.
This is why we are asking for a U.N. investigation into the assassination.While we would assist the Scotland Yard investigators who have been called onlyto assist the Pakistani investigators and not to carry out independentinvestigations, we are concerned at how tightly the international experts'involvement in investigation is being controlled by the Musharraf regime.
We need a larger political investigation under the auspices of the U.N. whichwill be an independent probe to identify the sponsors, financiers, organizersand perpetrators of the crime. The regime says that al Qaeda is involved. It hasalso been claiming that al Qaeda operates from across the Pakistani borders. Soif by government's own admission it is a case of international terrorism, why itshould not invite U.N. investigators? We also need an investigation into why thegovernment changed its version and into the cover up that followed theassassination.
Had the regime investigated the October 18th massacre that targeted MohtarmaBenazir Bhutto, she may be alive today. Instead of hunting down the assailants,the regime covered up that probe as well, providing impunity to terrorists thatstruck the first night she landed in Pakistan.
The Bush Administration continues to see President Musharraf as asteadfast ally. Are you concerned that this relationship may undermine thegrowth of democracy in Pakistan?
Yes. As long as the remnants of dictatorship receive international support,democracy in Pakistan will be undermined. Since 9/11, Pakistan has received over$10 billion in overt and covert assistance. No one knows how it has been spent.Many think that this assistance has propped up the dictatorship rather than thepeople of the country. Musharraf rigged the 2002 elections, but theinternational community seems to acquiesce with it. The regime has harassedpolitical opponents, removed and detained Supreme Court judges and lawyers;changed the constitution to suit one man; imposed emergency; and curbed mediafreedom. Hundreds of ordinary citizens have disappeared under the garb of"war on terror". The people expected the international community towork for restoration of democracy and basic rights in Pakistan. The people ofPakistan are sometimes puzzled as to why the international community whichclaims to be fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan for democracy is toleratingdictatorship in Pakistan.
Should US aid to Pakistan be made conditional?
The people of Pakistan should continue to receive international economicassistance. However, international assistance particularly the militaryassistance needs to be linked to democratic progress and free and fairelections. The regime in Pakistan should be made to understand that theinternational assistance is for the people, the 170 million people of thecountry, and not for sustaining the dictatorship. So if the regime usesinternational aid to wage war against its own people it will not be regarded asaid to the people of Pakistan. The first step toward ensuring Pakistan'stransition to democracy is free, transparent and fair elections on February 18,in accordance with the Constitution, under an independent Election Commission toguarantee that such elections are free and fair, and under open internationaland independent monitoring of such elections. The international community mustensure free, fair and transparent elections, the release of all politicalprisoners including judges and lawyers, the freedom of the media and the normalpursuit of political activity with full security of all national politicalleaders. We urge that international aid to Pakistan be further expanded toinclude economic and social development under an elected, democratic government.
Mr Musharraf in a recent interview said Ms Bhutto was in part to blamefor her death since she emerged from the sunroof of her car. What is yourreaction to this comment?
It is outrageous. It goes to show how inconsiderate and insensitive theregime is. They blame the victim instead of taking responsibility for their ownsecurity failures. Shaheed Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto was campaigning for theelection. Our party has grassroots support--and in a campaign, you reach out tothe people on the ground; speak to them, hear their views, explain your electionmandate and establish a sort of personal rapport. It is offensive to suggestthat she was responsible for her assassination whereas it fact the regime failedto protect her, or may one say, connived in her assassination. Governmentleaders, including Musharraf and his chief ministers have held rallies but hadenough security to protect them from assassination. Former Prime MinisterShaukat Aziz and former interior Minister Aftab Sherpao were both attacked afterrallies in similar circumstances. Both had security cordons that protected them.Neither was even mildly injured in the attacks. Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto wasmartyred not because, in defiance of what the regime wanted, she was reachingout to the people. She was martyred because of the failure or complicity of theregime in failing to protect her.
In the same CBS interview Mr Musharraf said he shared a rockyrelationship with your wife and accused her of shifting the goal posts. What didshe think of him?
Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto rightly thought of Musharraf as untrustworthy andthat view of him is shared by millions of Pakistanis and people all over theworld. Over the years, the regime offered several "packages" wantingher to stay out of the country and politics, which she refused. When his supportbase began eroding after Chief Justice [Iftikhar Muhammad] Chaudhry's dismissal,he offered reconciliation to PPP to relieve pressure on him. Then, he went backon his word--he did not provide her security, refused to provide a level playingfield for free election, refused to remove ban on third term prime minister (aban introduced in the law through executive fiat to banish Nawaz Sharif awayfrom politics), imposed emergency and suspended the constitution. ShaheedMohtarma Bhutto wanted a transition to democracy and she was promised itMusharraf did not want a transition to democracy. He declared virtual MartialLaw. It eroded the basis of talks and negotiations.
The regime is wrong in asserting that Mohtarma Bhutto shifted the goal posts.As a matter of fact Musharraf went back on his word. He has been running withthe hare and hunting with the hound. And I think Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto'sassassination is the ultimate in deception.
Are you confident that the elections of Feb. 18 will be free and fair?
In the current state the elections cannot be free and fair. Indeedinternational bodies like the International Crisis Group (ICG) have alreadycatalogued how the dice has been loaded against the democratic partiesparticularly the Pakistan People's Party. Pre-poll rigging began several monthsago. Shaheed Mohtarma Bhutto planned to give a consolidated report of complaintsof rigging from across the country to the two US Congressmen later on the dayshe was martyred. The report had just been completed and was to be released tothe international community the day after the rally. Our party released thisreport earlier this month. The report shows how far the Musharraf regime hasgone and is planning to go to rig the election. The electoral rolls are flawed.The Election Commission is far from independent. The media and judiciary are notfree. The district governments and intelligence agencies are openly engaged inelectoral fraud and then there are the plans for Election Day.
For example:
So unless the international community forcefully engages and makes it clearthat there will be price paid for rigged elections, the regime will go aheadwith rigging the polls, if indeed they are held on the announced date.
The US had worked behind the scenes to try and cobble a power sharingagreement between Ms Bhutto and Mr Musharraf. In an interview, Pakistan'sAmbassador Mahmud Ali Durrani said Mr Musharraf was open to the idea ofjoining in a coalition. Would the PPP consider such power-sharing should theneed arise?
Musharraf has shown that he does not respect the constitution and considershis own word above that of the law. Coalitions and power sharing are conceptsunder normal politics and constitutional rule. The PPP is a democratic politicalparty that led the nation in evolving consensus on the 1973 constitution. Wehave paid a heavy price for our struggle for democracy--the assassinations ofShaheed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto, the imprisonment ofthousands of our members and workers over the years, my own imprisonment foreleven long years in two separate spells. We are open to all options to ensurerestoration of democracy but we will not become part of any excuse to maintaindictatorship. So much depends on what direction things are taking. We are notlooking for crumbs of power from a dictator's table. We will take our rightfulshare in power under the constitution after a free and fair election.
Is the PPP open to the idea of sharing power with Nawaz Sharif's partyunder similar circumstances?
The PPP and Mr Nawaz Sharif's Pakistan Muslim League (PML-N) are signatoriesto the Charter for Democracy. We have been allies in the Alliance forRestoration of Democracy (ARD). We have a common cause in opposing thedictatorship. All questions about sharing power are premature. Decisions in thisregard will be taken by the Party's central executive when the time comes. Thefirst question facing all of us is getting free and fair elections and returningPakistan to the path of democracy. But power cannot be carved up on a dictator'stable. For us legitimate power can only accrue from the power of the ballot, notthe bullet.
If the PPP comes to power would it seek to impeach Mr Musharraf?
The PPP has just lost its leader. I have just lost my wife. My children havelost their mother. Our party is facing massive repression and threats to oursecurity. Pakistanis are engaged in a struggle for the restoration of democracy.I think these are the realities we face. This question is hypothetical. For now,we are focused on the elections.
Do you believe the Supreme Court judges fired by Mr Musharraf should bereinstated and would your party do this if it wins the Feb. 18 election?
The PPP has been unequivocal in demanding independence of the judiciary.Lawyers belonging to the PPP, most notably Aitzaz Ahsan, were prominent in thestruggle for rule of law that followed the ouster of the Chief Justice byMusharraf in March. From the footage of the rallies of that period it is clearthat the crowds all waved PPP flags. At that time the issue was simple: To getthe Chief Justice restored to his office. Subsequently the regime complicatedthe matter with the Provisional Constitution Order (PCO) and a lot of legalmumbo jumbo. We will have to find a way around it and our approach will beinstitutional, not centered on individuals. The PPP manifesto and the Charter ofDemocracy it signed with the PML (N) clearly state that we will re-establish thejudiciary's independence under the constitution and we plan to do just that ifwe win the election and form the government.
Some critics have voiced concern that leadership of the PPP is beinghanded down like a "family heirloom." How do you react to this?
Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto let her wishes about the party leadership e known inher will. The will was read out at the meeting of the PPP Central ExecutiveCommittee after her assassination. The CEC elected the new leadership inaccordance with Mohtarma's will. The decision to elect me and our son BilawalBhutto Zardari as co-Chairmen of the PPP was made by the party's CentralExecutive Committee. Even if it was in accordance with the late leader's will,it is wrong to say this is the transfer of a family heirloom or anything likethat. The Party leadership felt that in the current chaotic condition in thecountry and in the Party, I could effectively hold the Party together and leadthem into elections. In the sub-continental politics and also in Pakistan thefamily tree has significance. Take for example Rajiv Gandhi in India orBandranaikes in Sri Lanka or Hasina Wajid in Bangladesh. In a number ofpolitical parties the spouses or children of Party founders have come to play aspecial role, more so when the Party leaders were assassinated. It was theparty's decision, which was fully backed by the rank and file. In fact,according to a recent Gallup poll, a majority of Pakistanis (53 %) think that itwas the right decision taken by the Party. Pakistan is not the only countrywhere members of a political party see a family as representing theiraspirations. In several democratic countries there is a tradition of supportingleaders from within a particular family. Just because the people support onefamily does not make the choice undemocratic.
The PPP's central executive committee took a unanimous decision to endorseMohtarma Bhutto's will but appointed Bilawal Bhutto, not myself as the Chairman.I was chosen to run the day to day affairs of the Party. This equationdistributes decision making in a collegial framework. The party surely has aright to choose its own leadership. This is not the same as passing downleadership like furniture. The Chair we now occupy is a bloody one. It is notone that everyone wants.
What role do you foresee for Barrister Aitzaz Ahsan in the party? Do youintend to reach out to leaders like Aftab Sherpao who split from the party?
Foreign media speculates more about individuals within our party than our ownmembers do. The PPP is an institution which has several brilliant leaders andtalented workers--with some of the most experienced administrators andarticulate individuals in the country. Aitzaz Ahsan has worked for the cause ofdemocracy and for the PPP for years. We seek his immediate release fromdetention so that he can come and play the central role in the party's strugglethat he has played in the past. I am personally reaching out to all of partyleaders and rank and file, including Aitzaz Ahsan. My goal is to strengthen theParty together and lead the PPP into elections and restoration of democracy.Specific roles of individuals have not yet been discussed. The time to do thatwill also come.
Does the PPP intend to field Amin Fahim as its prime ministerialcandidate?
Mr Fahim is one of the most experienced and respected members of the Party.The issue of the Prime Minister will be decided only after elections in thelight of our strength in the Parliament. It is pre-mature to talk of PrimeMinister even as elections have not been held and we do not know which Partygets how many parliamentary seats.
You have been a controversial figure in the past. Do you believe you canunite the PPP?
Pakistanis know their history and they know who was made controversial forwhat reason and by whom. The PPP stands united. I hope to keep things that way.As for the controversy, I have spent eleven years in prison, three years on oneoccasion and eight and a half years on another, without ever being convicted ofany crime.