Hewat Sadat, not his real name, who claims to figure among those who rank high on the Taliban hit list, in an interview with Simi Chakrabarti of Outlook, narrates the speedy takeover of the Taliban, the betrayal of the leaders and what it means to live under the Taliban.
Hewat Sadat, not his real name, worked as a translator for a foreign organisation and claims to figure among those who rank high on the Taliban hit list. He has escaped Afghanistan but has family and friends back in his homeland who he desperately wants to rescue. In this interview with Simi Chakrabarti of Outlook he narrates the speedy takeover of the Taliban; the betrayal of the leaders and what it means to live under the Taliban. Excerpts:
Q: What went through your mind as you saw Kabul fall to the Taliban?
What went through my mind as I saw Kabul fall to the Taliban? Of course, there were some negotiations prior to this incident, but this was really unbelievable and shocking. I personally believe, and I strongly believe that the majority of Afghans didn’t expect this fall will occur so quickly. The way it happened was very unpredictable, unbelievable. So, it was a shock because it was something that we weren’t expecting after 20 years of hard work of the people, the government, and the international community. This was not something that we were expecting so it was shocking, very unpredictable.
Q: In a week, the Taliban had overrun your country and taken over the capital. Did you expect this to be so easy for them?
After 20 years of establishing a governing system, I was not expecting that things will go this easy or quick or swift. But the reason most probably was part of the deal when USA signed a deal with Taliban at that time. There was some gossip that there are some articles in that deal which has not been given to the public. At that time people were just gossiping on social media that this kind of handing over provinces and more power to Taliban would be part of the deal but to handover all country and so easily, we were not expecting and it was again unbelievable that whole country, all provinces, and the capital just fell under Taliban within a week, except for Panjshir, which is now the only hope for people, who are waiting to see what Taliban is doing, otherwise they can start resistance from that province.
Q: Back in time, what was life under the Taliban like?
I have lived under the Taliban the first time when they took over the power. I was young at that time. I can’t explain the feeling that we had at that time. It was just horrible, sad, depressive and boring lifestyle. No human rights, no honour or respect for people, they were just dealing with people very badly, like wild animals.
I have two very bad memories that I will never ever forget. Every moment living under the Taliban can be considered a bad memory. But these two will always stay with me. And they make me very sad when I remember them. These two incidents are kind of relevant as well.
One day I was riding my bike to go to one of my relatives place and on the way, I was caught by a Talib and he held me by my shoulder very tightly and stopped me because I didn’t have a cap on my head, like the Islamic cap some people wear. I had short hair, it wasn’t stylish, long hair. It was not covered. So that Talib just made me sit on the edge of the street where a barber was sitting and was cutting people’s hair. There was a line, so I had to sit in the line. And I was feeling just disgusted. It was a very, very bad feeling. You feel like you are nothing and that you have lost your ownership, your honour, you have nothing. So they cut my hair and when I went home, I decided I was not going to the University anymore, that I am not studying or staying in this country anymore.
My Dad convinced me and he gave me some very good advice. He said, “Look if you don’t go to the University you will lose this opportunity of education. Taliban will go away sooner or later but if you miss this educational opportunity, you will probably not get it again. So, if you don’t go to the University, you will lose something, not the Taliban.” So he encouraged me and I started going to University.
Next week I started going to University and then the second day, I had this University lecturer. During the Taliban, everyday would start with an Islamic subject - always. Usually the lecturers are high-ranking Taliban officials. So, that day the lecturer turned out to be the deputy assistant of Ministry of Defence - a very high-ranking Talib in a Taliban government. I entered the classroom, and I forgot to change my hat to the Islamic cap, like the way people wear in the mosque or during prayer. It was the rule that you had to have that cap or the turban when you enter the classroom. So he looked at me, and he said, it was around 9/11, around that time, and he told me, that do you think we are scared of USA, and you are getting ready by wearing a hat – a western style hat – that we will leave the country and these infidels will come and take over and you are getting ready for that?
While he was talking, he pulled out his pistol and put it on the table. He said, “Look! I can kill you straightaway, right now, and no one can do anything because we are still in power and don’t try to show me that we are weak. So I was trying to argue, saying, “Look I am using this for protection from the sun and things like that, but my colleague, who was sitting next to me, he pulled my hand and said, “Don’t argue. Don’t say anything.” So I tolerated a lot.
I was scared as well at the same time, to be honest. It was scary. I waited until the end of that subject, and I left the University and I went home and told my parents that I was not going to University anymore until it is all resolved or I will never ever go to Uni. Luckily, that 9/11 incident happened and things changed very rapidly.
USA attacked Taliban and brought them back. It was same kind of history but opposite, at different times. So those are the memories. There are a lot of memories if I go back and remember. We had a TV – Dish TV – we used to watch TV – just purely because of news, my dad was interested in news as well.
Every night, we used to adjust the antenna and everything. After watching for one or two hours, we would disassemble everything and keep it in the underground. We had a private, separate place underground. Every moment was just a bad memory. I hope it doesn’t repeat as it was the same in the past. I hope they can show some change and they can maintain those changes. That’s something important, I think.
Q: Your family members are targets. Are you in contact with them? What is the situation?
I have family members, who can be targeted at the moment, but I am in contact. So my parents and my younger sister, who also has a business are there. She was an active person but not at the moment. Most women who are working in the government or private sectors, they choose or prefer to stay in until things are much clear. Because they can’t trust and I totally agree with this concern because Taliban are not the people to be trusted very easily. I am in contact with my family. They are not in immediate danger at the moment because our expectation was that Taliban will just enter, try kill and people and do stupid things as they were doing the last time. There are videos that show that the Taliban are going to people’s houses, taking their vehicles and trying to interrogate them and things like that, which is contradictory to what they say in the media. I am in contact with my family members and hoping we will get them out as soon as possible to somewhere safe. I can’t get in touch with a lot of my friends. Even when I try to contact them via Facebook or Messenger, some respond saying things are in control, nothing is unusual and things like that but I fear that they are probably scared of the Taliban. I don’t think people will be that brave to tell the truth at this stage. It’s an uncertain situation until we see what happens next.
Q: The Afghan President fleeing, the US diplomats fleeing, thousands of Afghans chasing an aircraft, hundreds crammed inside a cargo aircraft - two people clinging to the aircraft’s wheels - and then falling to their death on people’s rooftops - some horrific, defining images in history there. What would you like to tell the world?
The scenarios you have explained, like the Afghan President fleeing - the US diplomats fleeing, thousands of Afghans chasing the aircraft, and that horrible incident that happened where you can see people falling from the aircraft and some other horrific images – these are all very, very disturbing and shameful incidents. When I use “shameful” I want to emphasize that this is very shameful for USA and their allies to spend all those time, resources and with the cost of people’s lives, hundreds of Afghan’s lives, hundred thousands and thousands of foreigners, western including American lives of the military and then we saw all those kind of scenarios at the end.
So I really feel bad and sad and I feel Afghanistan has been deprived with this kind of dealing with the USA. They have always misused Afghans and Afghanistan. Leaving the country and the people in a bad situation, so it’s a shameful incident we are witnessing, and this will be recorded in the history. Everyone in the world knows that this shouldn’t happen after the existence of America for 20 years in another country to fix problems. Doesn’t matter what the problem was but you were there, you spend more than a trillion dollars and you killed so many people and then at the end, it’s the end. The end was exactly like the beginning. The only difference was at the beginning, they tried to withdraw the Taliban and now they brought Taliban back. Let’s not forget that the Taliban are very, very scary and wild creatures. They have done things in the past and in the past 20 years, that you can’t trust them.
That’s why people are desperate. That’s why people just want to get out. The fact that we saw the country fall to the Taliban so quickly sends out the message that probably we didn’t have achievements in the military and political bases. Overall, there were achievements for humans, women’s rights, and other democratic activities like elections and things like that. But those things will be lost if there are no agreements on a proper, governmental system.