'In Iran, We Don't Have Homosexuals, Like In Your Country'

Let me begin with the question to which you just alluded...The first question is: Do you or your government seek thedestruction of the state of Israel as a Jewish state?

Ahmadinejad: We love all nations. We are friends withthe Jewish people. There are many Jews in Iran, leaving peacefully, withsecurity.

You must understand that in our constitution and our laws and in theparliamentary elections for every 150,000 people, we get one representative inthe parliament. For the Jewish community, for one- fifth of this number, theystill get one independent representative in the parliament.

So our proposal to the Palestinian plight is a humanitarian and democraticproposal. What we say is that to solve this 60-year problem, we must allow thePalestinian people to decide about its future for itself.

This is compatible with the spirit of the Charter of the United Nations andthe fundamental principles enshrined in it. We must allow Jewish Palestinians,Muslim Palestinians and Christian Palestinians to determine their own fatethemselves through a free referendum.

Ahmadinejad: Whatever they choose as a nation, everybodyshould accept and respect. Nobody should interfere in the affairs of thePalestinian nation. Nobody should sow the seeds of discord. Nobody should spendtens of billions of dollars equipping and arming one group there.

We say allow the Palestinian nation to decide its own future, to have theright to self-determination for itself. This is what we are saying as theIranian nation.

Question: Mr. President, I think many members of our audience would like tohear a clearer answer to that question. That is...

The question is: Do you or your government seek the destruction of the stateof Israel as a Jewish state? And I think you could answer that question with asingle word, either yes or no.

Ahmadinejad: You asked the question, and then you wantthe answer the way you want to hear it. Well, this isn't really a free flow ofinformation.

I'm just telling you what my position is. I'm asking you: Is the Palestinianissue not an international issue of prominence or not? Please tell me, yes orno?

There's the plight of a people.

Question: The answer to your question is yes.

Ahmadinejad: Well, thank you for your cooperation. Werecognize there's a problem there that's been going on for 60 years. Everybodyprovides a solution. And our solution is a free referendum.

Let this referendum happen, and then you'll see what the results are. Let the people of Palestine freely choose what they want fortheir future. And then what you want in your mind to happen there will happenand will be realized.

Question: (off-mike, so repeated by the moderator): second question, which was posed by President Bollingerearlier and comes from a number of other students: Why is your governmentproviding aid to terrorists?

Will you stop doing so and permit international monitoring to certify thatyou have stopped?

Ahmadinejad: Well, I want to pose a question here toyou. If someone comes and explodes bombs around you, threatens your president,members of the administration, kills the members of the Senate or Congress, howwould you treat them?

Would you reward them, or would you name them a terrorist group?

Well, it's clear. You would call them a terrorist.

My dear friends, the Iranian nation is a victim of terrorism. For --26 yearsago, where I worked, close to where I worked, in a terrorist operation, theelected president of the Iranian nation and the elected prime minister of Iranlost their lives in a bomb explosion. They turned into ashes.

A month later, in another terrorist operation, 72 members of our parliamentand highest-ranking officials, including four ministers and eight deputyministers' bodies were shattered into pieces as a result of terrorist attacks.

Within six months, over 4,000 Iranians losttheir lives, assassinated by terrorist groups. All this carried out by the handof one single terrorist group. Regretfully, that same terrorist group now,today, in your country, is being -- operating under the support of the U.S.administration, working freely, distributing declarations freely, and theircamps in Iraq are supported by the U.S. government.

They're secured by the U.S. government. Our nation has been harmed byterrorist activities. We were the first nation that objected to terrorism andthe first to uphold the need to fight terrorism.

Question: Mr. President, a number of questioners -- sorry -- a number ofpeople have asked...

Ahmadinejad: We need to address the root causes ofterrorism and eradicate those root causes. We live in the Middle East. For us,it's quite clear which powers, sort of, incite terrorists, support them, fundthem. We know that. Our nation, the Iranian nation, through history has alwaysextended a hand of friendship to other nations. We're a cultured nation.

We don't need to resort to terrorism. We've been victims of terrorism,ourselves. And it's regrettable that people who argue they're fightingterrorism, instead of supporting the Iranian people and nation, instead offighting the terrorists that are attacking them, they're supporting theterrorists and then turn the fingers to us. This is most regrettable.

Question:  Mr. President, a further set of questions challenged your view ofthe Holocaust. Since the evidence that this occurred in Europe in the 1940s, asa result of the actions of the German Nazi government, since that -- those facts-- are well documented, why are you calling for additional research? There seemsto be no purpose in doing so, other than to question whether the Holocaustactually occurred as a historical fact.

Can you explain why you believe more research is needed into the facts ofwhat are -- what is -- what are incontrovertible?

Ahmadinejad: Thank you very much for your question. I aman academic, and you are as well.

Can you argue that researching a phenomenon is finished, forever done? Can weclose the books for good on a historical event?

There are different perspectives that come to light after every research isdone. Why should we stop research at all? Why should we stop the progress ofscience and knowledge?

You shouldn't ask me why I'm asking questions. You should ask yourselves whyyou think that that's questionable? Why do you want to stop the progress ofscience and research?

Do you ever take what's known as absolute in physics? We had principles inmathematics that were granted to be absolute in mathematics for over 800 years.But new science has gotten rid of those absolutisms, come forward otherdifferent logics of looking at mathematics and sort of turned the way we look atit as a science altogether after 800 years.

So, we must allow researchers, scholars, they investigate into everything,every phenomenon -- God, universe, human beings, history and civilization. Whyshould we stop that?

I am not saying that it didn't happen at all. This is not that judgment thatI am passing here.

I said, in my second question, granted this happened, what does it have to dowith the Palestinian people?

Ahmadinejad: This is a serious question. There are twodimensions. In the first question...

Question: Let me just -- let me pursue this a bit further.

It is difficult to have a scientific discussion if there isn't at least somebasis, some empirical basis, some agreement about what the facts are. So callingfor research into the facts when the facts are so well established representsfor many a challenging of the facts themselves and a denial that somethingterrible occurred in Europe in those years.

(applause)

Let me move on to...

Ahmadinejad: Allow me. After all, you are free tointerpret what you want from what I say. But what I am saying I'm saying withfull clarity.

In the first question I'm trying to actually uphold the rights of Europeanscholars. In the field of science and research I'm asking, there is nothingknown as absolute. There is nothing sufficiently done. Not in physics forcertain. There has been more research on physics than it has on the Holocaust,but we still continue to do research on physics. There is nothing wrong withdoing it.

This is what man wants. They want to approach a topic from different pointsof view. Scientists want to do that. Especially an issue that has become thefoundation of so many other political developments that have unfolded in theMiddle East in the past 60 years.

Why do we stop it altogether? You have to have a justified reason for it. Thefact that it was researched sufficiently in the past is not a sufficientjustification in my mind.

Question: Mr. President, another student asks -- Iranian women are now deniedbasic human rights and your government has imposed draconian punishments,including execution on Iranian citizens who are homosexuals. Why are you doingthose things?

Ahmadinejad: Freedoms in Iran are genuine, truefreedoms. Iranian people are free. Women in Iran enjoy the highest levels offreedom.

We have two deputy -- two vice presidents that are female, at the highestlevels of specialty, specialized fields. In our parliament and our governmentand our universities, they're present. In our biotechnological fields, ourtechnological fields, there are hundreds of women scientists that are active --in the political realm as well.

It's not -- it's wrong for some governments, when they disagree with anothergovernment, to, sort of, try to spread lies that distort the full truth.

Our nation is free. It has the highest level of participation in elections,in Iran. Eighty percent, ninety percent of the people turn out for votes duringthe elections, half of which, over half of which are women. So how can we saythat women are not free? Is that the entire truth?

But as for the executions, I'd like to raise two questions. If someone comesand establishes a network for illicit drug trafficking that affects the youth inIran, Turkey, Europe, the United States, by introducing these illicit drugs anddestroys them, would you ever reward them?

People who lead the lives -- cause the deterioration of the lives of hundredsof millions of youth around the world, including in Iran, can we have anysympathy to them? Don't you have capital punishment in the United States? Youdo, too.

(applause)

In Iran, too, there's capital punishmentfor illicit drug traffickers, for people who violated the rights of people. Ifsomebody takes up a gun, goes into a house, kills a group of people there, andthen tries to take ransom, how would you confront them in Iran -- or in theUnited States? Would you reward them? Can a physician allow microbessymbolically speaking to spread across a nation?

We have laws. People who violate the public rights of the people by usingguns, killing people, creating insecurity, sells drugs, distribute drugs at ahigh level are sentenced to execution in Iran.

And some of these punishments, very few, are carried in the public eye,before the public eye. It's a law, based on democratic principles. You useinjections and microbes to kill these people, and they, they're executed orthey're hung. But the end result is killing.

Question: Mr. President, the question isn't about criminal and drugsmugglers. The question was about sexual preference and women.

(applause)

Ahmadinejad: In Iran, we don't have homosexuals, like inyour country. We don't have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. Idon't know who's told you that we have it. (laughter) But, as for women, maybe you think that being a woman is a crime. It's not acrime to be a woman.

Women are the best creatures created byGod. They represent the kindness, the beauty that God instills in them. Womenare respected in Iran. In Iran, every family who is given a girl -- is given --in every Iranian family who has a girl, they are 10 times happier than having ason. Women are respected more than men are.

They are exempt from many responsibilities. Many of the legalresponsibilities rest on the shoulders of men in our society because of therespect, culturally given, to women, to the future mothers. In Iranian culture,men and sons and girls constantly kiss the hands of their mothers as a sign ofrespect, respect for women. And we are proud of this culture.

Question: Mr. President, I have two questions which I'll put together.

One is, what did you hope to accomplish by speaking at Columbia today? Andthe second is, what would you have said if you were permitted to visit the siteof the September 11th tragedy?

Ahmadinejad: Well, here, I'm your guest. I've beeninvited by Columbia, an official invitation given for me to come here. But I dowant to say something here.

In Iran, when you invite a guest, you respect them. This is our tradition,required by our culture. And I know that American people have that culture, aswell. Last year, I wanted to go to the site of the September 11th tragedy toshow respect to the victims of the tragedy, to show my sympathy with theirfamilies.

But our plans got overextended. We were involved in negotiations and meetingsuntil midnight. And they said it would be very difficult to go visit the site atthat late hour of the night. So, I told my friends then that they need to planthis for the following year so that I can go and visit the site and to show myrespects.

Regretfully, some groups had very strong reactions, very bad reactions. It'sbad for someone to prevent someone to show sympathy to the families of thevictims of the September 11 event -- tragic event. This is a respect from myside. Somebody told me this is an insult. I said, "What are you saying?This is my way of showing my respect. Why would you think that?"

Thinking like that, how do you expect to manage the world and world affairs?

Ahmadinejad: Don't you think that a lot of problems inthe world come from the way you look at issues because of this kind of way ofthinking, because of this sort of pessimistic approach toward a lot of people,because of a certain level of selfishness, self-absorption that needs to be putaside so that we can show respect to everyone, to allow an environment forfriendship to grow, to allow all nations to talk with one another and movetoward peace?

What was the second question?

I wanted to speak with the press. The September 11th tragic event was a hugeevent. It led to a lot of many other events afterwards. After 9/11 Afghanistanwas occupied, and then Iraq was occupied. And for six years in our region thereis insecurity, terror and fear.

If the root causes of 9/11 are examined properly -- why it was happened, whatcaused it, what were the conditions that led to it, who truly was involved, whowas really involved -- and put it all together to understand how to prevent thecrisis in Iraq, fix the problem in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

Question: Mr. President, a number of questions have asked about your nuclearprogram. Why is your government seeking to acquire enriched uranium suitable fornuclear weapons? Will you stop doing so?

Ahmadinejad: Our nuclear program, first and foremost,operates within the framework of law. And, second, under the inspections of theIAEA. And, thirdly, they are completely peaceful. The technology we have is for enrichment below the level of 5 percent level.

And any level below 5 percent is solely for providing fuel topower plants. Repeated reports by the IAEA explicitly say that there is noindication that Iran has deviated from the peaceful path of its nuclear program.

We are all well aware that Iran's nuclear issue is a political issue. It'snot a legal issue. The international atomic energy organization -- agency hasverified that our activities are for peaceful purposes.

But there are two or three powers that think that they have the right tomonopolize all science and knowledge. And they expect the Iranian people, theIranian nation, to turn to others to get fuel, to get science, to get knowledgethat's indigenous to itself, to humble itself. And then they would, of course,refrain from giving it to us, too.

So we're quite clear what we need.

If you have created the fifth generation of atomic bombs and are testing themalready, what position are you in to question the peaceful purposes of otherpeople who want nuclear power?

We do not believe in nuclear weapons, period. It goes against the whole grainof humanity.

(applause)

So let me just joke -- try to tell a joke here. I think the politicians whoare after atomic bombs or are testing them, making them, politically, they arebackward, retarded.

(applause)

Question: Mr. President, a final question. I know your time is short and thatyou need to move on. Is Iran prepared to open broad discussions with thegovernment of the United States?  What would Iran hope to achieve in such discussions?How do you see, in the future, a resolution of the points of conflict betweenthe government of the United States and the government of Iran?

Ahmadinejad: From the start, we announced that we areready to negotiate with all countries. Since 28 years ago, when our revolutionsucceeded and we established, we took freedom and democracy that was held at bayby a pro-Western dictatorship. We announced our readiness that besides twocountries, we are ready to have friendly relations and talks with all countriesof the world.

One of those two was the apartheid regime of South Africa, which has beeneliminated. And the second was the Zionist regime. For everybody else around theworld, we announced that we want to have friendly, brotherly ties. The Iraniannation is a cultured nation. It is a civilized nation. It seeks -- it wantstalks and negotiations. It's for it.

We believe that in negotiations and talks, everything can be resolved veryeasily. We don't need threats. We don't need to point bombs or guns. We don'tneed to get into conflicts if we talk. We have a clear logic about that.

We question the way the world is being run and managed today. We believe thatit will not lead to viable peace and security for the world, the way it's runtoday.