At 82, Shankersinh Vaghela is the most active and experienced leader in Gujarat at his age. After joining politics through Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and Jan Sangh, the former Chief Minister and Union Minister in UPA-1, has come a long way to form Praja Shakti Democratic Party just four months before Gujarat Assembly Elections.
Fondly known as 'Bapu', Vaghela believes that ouster of Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) from power is the most important task to save democracy in the country. Vaghela says he will continue his campaign against BJP even after the assembly polls. He talks with Abhishek Srivastava at length about contemporary politics, Gujarat elections and more from his palatial residence in Gandhinagar. Edited excerpts:
Your political journey has gone beyond five decades. But the politics of Gujarat has revolved around one particular party (BJP) for about 30 years now. How do you perceive this?
Gujarat basically has a right-wing ideology, where nationalism and religion get priority. For 30 years, the BJP has instilled a negative thought in people’s minds that they are safe because of the party otherwise Muslims would have killed them. BJP did fierce marketing around it; its marketing, an unproductive investment for the public, but productive for itself.
Congress built hospitals and gave education and good roads. BJP built the statue, Mahatma Mandir, and Leela Hotel. There is nothing in it at all. People have to get their daily bread first, but sometimes people feel insecure as they get caught in BJP’s ideological trap.
Has it flourished only in the past 30 years or is something like this inherent in the culture of Gujarat?
It is in the culture. See, Congress did not do its marketing, it just gave results. We gave a decentralised economy, decentralised administration, divided the districts, and took the cabinet out for the people, but did not do marketing. They did nothing but marketing.
You started your political career with RSS and Jan Sangh, and swore allegiance to right-wing ideology. Today, you are criticising them.
Their ideology was the same even then. What changed then?
Back then, there was no day-to-day involvement of the political party Jan Sangh in the RSS. This has happened gradually. Today, the RSS has turned completely into the BJP. I can see that the condition of RSS is like Seva Dal. The RSS is now flattering the BJP. Those who have not experienced five-star culture are now travelling in planes and staying in air-conditioned hotels. It will ultimately destroy them.
The BJP has destroyed the RSS. Why does Mohan Bhagwat need a security cover? Ironically, the man who claims to secure the whole country himself needs security. Don't they feel ashamed? Keeping policemen on the right and the left at the cost of the public exchequer? They keep talking about how they will keep the country safe and create a Hindu Rashtra. But from where will they create Hindu Rashtra?
What is this claim of Hindu Rashtra all about?
Nothing exists of that sort. There is nothing like Hinduism. Where is Hinduism? Jain, Sikh or Buddhist is not a Hindu. Hinduism has Vaishnavism in it. There are two streams in Vaishnavism—Jai Shri Gokulesh and Jai Shri Krishna. Their religion is Vaishnavism. Swaminarayan has six-seven branches. Take any other sect like that. First, they belong to their sects, then belong to Hindu religion. Hindu is a locational entity just like America. Which Hindu religion was formed and where? Was Manusmriti a Hindu religion? Was Ramayana Hinduism? Is putting molten lead in Dalit ears a sign of Hinduism? What Yudhishthira did is Hindu religion? Is it Hinduism to bet on your wife while gambling?
What is the Hindu religion that the RSS talks about?
Hindu means Hindu of Hindustan, like Indian from India. That is what they mean.
Does it resonate with people?
It is unable to reach out to people because even BJP followers cannot understand this thing. There is one thing called 'letter and spirit' in the Constitution. They speak Hindu in letters but in spirit, they spread fanatical anti-Muslim, anti-Christian thought. If they talked about Hindus, I would have welcomed them.
Does that mean the Hinduism vs Hindutva discourse started by Rahul Gandhi was correct?
That is a different matter. One should not delve into what one does not know. If Congress talks about religion, it will get trapped in it. This is not their job at all. They are not religious. They are humanists, while BJP talks anti-Muslim in the name of pro-Hindu. In 30 years, BJP has made people anti-Muslim in Gujarat. A train coach was burnt, and Hindus died. But they will say that Hindus did not die, they were killed by Muslims. This is how Pakistan, Pulwama, Godhra, and everything else, has been orchestrated. Only figures count for them. Once they get the vote, they go away, the matter is over.
Do you think the same thing will happen again this time in the Gujarat elections?
It doesn't seem to be happening, but people often get trapped in marketing. When anti-Muslim sentiments have to be aroused in Gujarat, what difference does it make whether 50 die or 30? But this time, BJP is very down. The voters will vote against BJP. This belief of mine is increasing by the day.
And what is the reason for this?
Anti-incumbency. No other reason. Twenty-seven years have passed. Nothing has existed but lies.
Who will benefit from this? Congress or Aam Aadmi Party?
The question of the Aam Aadmi Party does not even arise. That is like a soda bottle with the fizz only. It has spent Rs 450 crore, it is just propaganda. I do not know where the money comes from. One thousand people are here for three-four months. Who is paying for them?
Many people say that BJP and Aam Aadmi Party have a tacit understanding.
The BJP does not give them money. Yes, the BJP propelled them to oust Congress. That topiwala baba was an RSS stooge. Then that policewoman, that army chief from Haryana, Baba Ramdev, all were involved in this. All this was used to end Sheila Dikshit's 15-year rule in Delhi. RSS organised everything, and BJP just financed it.
Did you know it back then or did you understand it later?
We have known it from the very beginning. We all know their business, but my opinion will not create any buzz. Marketing is so big that nothing could be done with my statements. I feel a lot of pain that I am not heard. One should never cheat the poor people of this country.
According to you, RSS has now become BJP. Do you think some of the people in RSS' top leadership feel the same?
Yes, but they are in the minority there. The one who says the right thing is considered wrong in the organisation. The right man gets alienated.
Do you see any kind of tussle between BJP and RSS till 2024?
No, not at all. There is no backbone left in RSS. People have lost faith in RSS. RSS will die, but its people are not going anywhere. Their conditioning is like that only. They are taught to take orders only.
Will the Modi government come back to power at the Centre in 2024?
I understand that BJP will go down. People are realising that their Chief Minister has no relevance. He follows the PM's car, be it Patel or Yogi. This is an insult to the state.
Will Opposition unity be formed in 2024? Will Congress play the main role in this? Any concrete predictions of results in Gujarat?
The voter is negative this time. Right now, it is silent, slowly people will speak out. BJP will not get more than 80 seats.
What is the role of the party you have formed this year in this election?
We did not get the symbol at all. We asked again and again and gave a full account of expenses etc. I don’t know why they are not giving. Everything happens, it goes on.
Any chance of you returning to Congress?
See, it is a mutual understanding between Congress and me. My son is contesting on a Congress ticket. As far as my role in Congress is concerned, I will decide after the elections. I don't have to contest elections now. I feel ashamed to ask for votes. My job is how to save democracy in the country and ensure BJP does not win the 2024 general elections. I plan to travel across the country to unite like-minded people who will not back down. I am considering such a role for myself as of now.
So, you are also going to take out a yatra?
Not a yatra. Just go out and meet people. Rahul's yatra is going on. For the first time, Rahul Gandhi is meeting people with a human touch. This was previously lacking in the party. Rahul Gandhi is not the Pappu BJP's marketing made him out to be. This will make a difference in the country’s politics and in the Congress too. Rahul is a good man, not a dirty leader. Politics is not his business. His job is to serve this country.
