Judy Woodruff , CNN Anchor: Secretary of State Colin Powell continued his tripthrough Asia today with a meeting in New Delhi with India's prime minister.After their talks, Powell said he is encouraged that India and Pakistan canreach a diplomatic to their current military standoff. Secretary Powell soundeda similar note yesterday after meeting with Pakistan's president, PervezMusharraf.
Meantime, here in the United States, India's defense minister, George Fernandes ,met with several U.S. officials this week, including Vice President Cheney.Earlier today, I spoke with George Fernandes . And I began by asking him aboutoptimistic-sounding statements that he made yesterday about resolving tensionswith Pakistan, even as border troops on both sides remain on high alert.
George Fernandes, Indian Defence Minister: Well, we have made the point that thetroops will be withdrawn the moment we have the Pakistani president meet withthe two principal demands that have been made. One is that the cross-borderterrorism should be brought to an end, which Pakistan can bring to an endwithout any difficulty whatsoever.
Judy Woodruff : The government of Pakistan can stop is, is what you're saying?
George Fernandes : Yes, yes, it can.
And the other is, we have given them 20 names of individuals who have or done alot of terrorist activity on our soil. Most of them are Indian nationals whohave taken refuge and who have been given protection in Pakistan. And some are-- three or four of them are Pakistani nationals.
Judy Woodruff : Well, the Pakistanis are saying they are already -- we have PresidentMusharraf making speeches saying: We are cracking down on terrorism.
But you are saying still that's not enough?
George Fernandes : Yes, because, between making a speech and implementing what you aresaying in your speech, they are two different categories. And we have -- I heardhis speech personally the day he delivered it. It was primarily addressed tosome of the problems that he is facing within his own country. He has notaddressed the problem that has created a situation where today the troops arefacing each other on the borders.
Judy Woodruff : Well, let me show you something that Secretary Powell -- or would youlisten? Secretary Powell told me in an interview this past Monday, before heheaded to the region, here is among -- here is part of what he had to say.
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COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We want to see us get back to a situationwhere the Indian army is no longer mobilized; they have moved back to theiroriginal position.
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Judy Woodruff : So the United States is saying: We want the Indian army -- the UnitedStates wants the Indian army back to its position.
George Fernandes : Well, that may be the view of the U.S. government, but that's not theview of the government of India. There is a world of difference between thesetwo views.
Judy Woodruff : But then how can you say problems are on the way to resolution ifthere is still so much difference?
George Fernandes : Well, one looks at the resolution because of the diplomatic effortsthat are on. And we started those diplomatic efforts right across the globe. Andwe believe that these diplomatic efforts will give us results.
Judy Woodruff : But you are still -- you say you still are waiting for the presidentof Pakistan, for the Pakistani government to crack down even further on theseterror groups. And you are waiting for these raids across the border to end.This could go on forever.
George Fernandes : Then if it's going to go on forever, as it has been going on for thelast 15 years and more, then what is this whole fight, global fight againstterrorism about? And we can't take a position that, well, we have been sufferingover these years and so let us continue to be victims of Pakistani terror,Pakistani-sponsored terrorist activities. We can't take that position.
Judy Woodruff : What specifically do you want President Musharraf to do that Pakistanhas not done so far? What specifically are you looking for him to do?
George Fernandes : Well, he has made certain promises in that speech of his. We want himto act on those promises.
Judy Woodruff : What's an example?
George Fernandes : For example, he has said that he wants to see the end of this kind ofterrorism. Now it is possible for him to act immediately.
Judy Woodruff : But a number of terrorists have been rounded up and taken intocustody.
George Fernandes : Yes, but that hasn't changed anything insofar as cross-borderterrorism is concerned. Over a period of time, terrorists have been exportedinto India. When we went in for a cease-fire and kept on extending it monthafter month after month, all that happened was, those terrorists who at thattime received total support from the Pakistani government, they moved in. Theyestablished their centers. And they took in weaponry and hid that weaponry. Andtoday it is all still being used against us.
Judy Woodruff : And so you are saying -- and you are saying the United States doesn'tunderstand that.
George Fernandes : Well, I'm sure that the United States is capable of understanding it,because what we are saying is not something that is not visible on the ground.We are not making an abstract statement. We are giving evidence.
The day I left Delhi, we had bomb explosions in Jammu and Kashmir. In the Jammuarea of Jammu and Kashmir. One person died. And this is happening on aday-to-day basis. This has to end. We can't possibly be talking at one end,sitting in some comfortable place, and we can't have terrorists shoot at ourtroops or at our innocent civilians, the women and children included. We can'thave it that way.
Judy Woodruff : India's defense minister, George Fernandes , we thank you very much. Wehear you loud and clear.
(Courtesy, Indian Embassy in Washington)
